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  1. #1
    Line Lord of House Klag

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    Death before dishonor translation

    Greetings,

    On behalf of the Emperor, I request a translation for the following phrase:

    "Death before dishonor"

    The Emperor thanks you in advance.

  2. #2
    Line Lord of House lungqIj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkle_Kahn View Post
    Greetings,

    On behalf of the Emperor, I request a translation for the following phrase:

    "Death before dishonor"

    The Emperor thanks you in advance.
    I'm assuming this is trying to put across the idea that one would rather die than be dishonored.

    DaquvHa'moHlu'pa' bIHeghjaj May you die before you are dishonored

    If the intent of the statement is different (may you die before you cause yourself dishonor or may you die before you cause dishonor for others) let me know and I'll translate that.

  3. #3
    Line Lord of House Klag

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    Will do! Thanks qurgh!
    He may replay here though, you never know with the Emperor. LOL

  4. #4
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    I would think that perspective plays a big part here. I have always thought of this quote as being in the first person, literally I will die before I dishonor myself (or others). Not so much a wish that you do so. Perhaps there are at least two versions of this quote, but the nuances are too much for the weak tongue of the earthers.

  5. #5
    Line Lord of House Klag

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    Quote Originally Posted by qoSagh View Post
    I would think that perspective plays a big part here. I have always thought of this quote as being in the first person, literally I will die before I dishonor myself (or others). Not so much a wish that you do so. Perhaps there are at least two versions of this quote, but the nuances are too much for the weak tongue of the earthers.
    Yes that's what I have thought. I don't know if that will make a different translation or not.

  6. #6
    Line Lord of House lungqIj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkle_Kahn View Post
    Yes that's what I have thought. I don't know if that will make a different translation or not.
    Yes, it makes a big different. That's why I asked for the specific meaning.

    As it stands "Death before dishonor" is not a complete sentence. It's an idiomatic statement that has different meanings depending on the context. I need to know the context it's being used it in order to give the correct translation.

    The one I gave DaquvHa'moHlu'pa' bIHeghjaj, could be said to a group of soldiers by a commanding officer before they leave to battle, but it wouldn't work if someone was saying it to themselves as they step into a battle for personal honor. That would be jIquvHa'moHpa' jIHeghjaj May I die before I cause dishonor.

    Some others:
    qaquvHa'moHpa' jIHeghjaj May I die before I cause you dishonor
    choquvHa'moHpa' bIHeghjaj May you die before you cause me dishonor

    It can be adjusted for all situations.

  7. #7
    interesting, i await to hear more on what is the right way to use this.
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  8. #8
    Line Lord of House Urussig Krum's Avatar
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    Very interesting interpretation.


  9. #9
    Member of House qlIStIy
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    I do not know if this would make a difference, but I think that perhaps the object is a little more genaric, something like

    May I die before I suffer any dishonor (regardless of the cause)

    Although I also think that the most widely used sentiment would be

    If given the choice, I will choose death and not dishonor

  10. #10
    Line Lord of House lungqIj
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    Quote Originally Posted by qoSagh View Post
    I do not know if this would make a difference, but I think that perhaps the object is a little more genaric, something like

    May I die before I suffer any dishonor (regardless of the cause)

    Although I also think that the most widely used sentiment would be

    If given the choice, I will choose death and not dishonor
    'e' vImughlaH.

    jIquvHa'pa' jIHeghjaj May I die before I am dishonoured

    pItlh.

  11. #11
    Founder of House Klag
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    Greetings Klingon Scholars,

    Looking over this thread, it is obvious that SOMEONE stayed awake during language arts in school! I am impressed!!

    qurgh is correct that this is an incomplete sentence, as it is a MOTTO that was often found tattoed on Earther military men during the 20th. century. qoSagh nailed it when he stated: "literally I will die before I dishonor myself" as its meaning. So now that our warriors are making appointments for tattoos, how would the MOTTO read?

    All for The Empire,
    Emperor Klag

  12. #12
    Line Lord of House lungqIj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Klag View Post
    Greetings Klingon Scholars,

    Looking over this thread, it is obvious that SOMEONE stayed awake during language arts in school! I am impressed!!

    qurgh is correct that this is an incomplete sentence, as it is a MOTTO that was often found tattoed on Earther military men during the 20th. century. qoSagh nailed it when he stated: "literally I will die before I dishonor myself" as its meaning. So now that our warriors are making appointments for tattoos, how would the MOTTO read?

    All for The Empire,
    Emperor Klag
    jIquvHa''eghmoHpa' jIHeghjaj May I die before I dishonor myself
    (lit: May I die before I cause myself to be dishonored)

    In pIqaD this would be:



    This would make a pretty good tattoo. If anyone wants a larger version to use as a template let me know and I'll create it.

  13. #13
    Line Lord of House tSepeS
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    Would this work:

    May my death precede my dishonor:

    HeghwIjjaj nung quvwIjHu'

    [Death/my/may - precede - honor/mine/undone]

  14. #14
    Line Lord of House lungqIj
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    Quote Originally Posted by mor'taH tSepeS View Post
    Would this work:

    May my death precede my dishonor:

    HeghwIjjaj nung quvwIjHu'

    [Death/my/may - precede - honor/mine/undone]
    What you said means:

    my honor-days ago precede my death-day

    -jaj and -Ha' (you made a typo with *-Hu') are verb suffixes, both HeghwIj and quvwIj are nouns. The word for dishonour is quvHa'ghach, so my dishonor would be quvHa'ghachwIj (quv (be honoured) + -Ha' (undo) + -ghach (turns a suffixed verb into a noun)).

    If we fix these couple of mistakes we end up with:

    HeghwIj nungjaj quvHa'ghachwIj May my dishonor precede my death

    I don't think that's what you wanted, so lets fix the word order:

    quvHa'ghachwIj nungjaj HeghwIj May my death precede my dishonor

    The only issue I see with this is that the original intent was that the speaker dies before they are dishonored by something. nung implies that both actions will happen and that the speaker simply wishes to state which order the actions occur in. There is no concept of "I want this to happen but I don't want that to happen" in nung. Here's some examples:

    Duj lumejtaHvIS yaSpu' nung HoD While they leave the ship the captain precedes the officers

    tlhIngan Hol mu'tlheghDaq wot nung DoS In a Klingon sentence the target precedes the verb

    I thought of another way to translate "death before dishonor":

    jIquvHa'pa' jIHegh vIneH Before I am dishonored I want to die

    It makes it a bit more blunt and takes out the whole "may" bit.

  15. #15
    Not thinking about the language, but rather the meaning that needs to be conveyed. I'm just wondering about this from a Klingon perspective. Isn't death itself honorable - especially in service or battle. Isn't the only time that dishonor is not fixable is when death occurs or the bloodline ends.

    So I am just wondering if it isn't more appropriate to say:

    May you die honorably. or

    May you die while in a state of honor. or

    May you die honorably while in a state of honor.

    Not sure what Unkle Kahns original intent was for the phrase. I'm just thinking about its purpose and phrasing in a Klingon context. Also, are there different words for death/die based on how it happens. Hence, death in battle versus death in old age versus death while running away? I guess I am being anal and cerebral about this.

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